LONDON HUSTINGS - ROUNDUP
On Monday 22nd May, the BDA hosted the London Hustings event at Sixty One Whitehall.
Representitives from Labour, the Liberal Democrats and the Green Party were in attendance. Below you can find highlights of the evening, including the party responses to questions posed by members of the Deaf community.
Use the section below to jump to a question, or if you have any questions in relation to the event or the answers given by any of the MPs present at the event, please use the button below to contact us.
QUESTIONS
Please note: Due to a technical issue with our camera equipment, recordings at the event could only be captured using a mobile device. Although we have taken every step to edit the content below, we regret that the video quality is not as high as we would have wished.
- The continuing failure of deaf children to achieve parity with their peers requires fair and independent research into the education of deaf children with independent recommendations. What does your party plan to do to address this?
- Many deaf sign language users are experiencing difficulties when being assessed for Personal Independent Payments by not having appropriate qualified interpreter being available during the assessment. What will your party do to make sure this is addressed?
- The government has decided to impose a cap on Access to Work funding. Access to Work is a vital lifeline for Deaf and hard of hearing people in the workplace. This new policy could discourage young deaf people from going to university as they will fear that the jobs they are studying towards won't be there for them after qualifying. What will your party do about the cap and allow Deaf people to stay in their jobs and pay their taxes?
- Brexit is a hot topic at the moment. What are your party's policies on Brexit and how can we ensure Britain gets the best outcome of negotiations. Can we afford to leave Europe? Where will the money come from to replace the lost European income?
- As a Deaf, Asian, I suffer a variety of abuse on a daily basis. As a minority, we are also being deprived of opportunities to gain more skills and experience in the work place. How could your party help people like me?
- There is a lot of inequality and a lack of support for Deaf people in the social and health care field. What can your party offer to those in real need?
- We are rather anxious that less tax income will lead to more public expenditure cuts affecting services important to us like health, social care, education and disability support. How do you plan to manage tax and the economy to safeguard much needed services?
- With recent advances in technology many companies now offer video relay and interpreting services via landline, cable or mobile. This is not available 24/7 and what will your party do to get the required legislation to have 24/7 access?
- Triple Pension Lock - We know that we have an ageing population, this is a clear trend that’s going to continue happening and we know that social care certainly isn’t cheap, whether that’s care within external housing or whether that’s support coming internally. Rather than just criticising the current plan, it would be good to know what your party’s stance is. Why should we pay for care when one becomes ill after we have paid tax for over 40 years?
- Question for Dawn from a deaf-blind member of the audience: When we are talking about coming out of the EU, most of us didn’t know what we were voting for, because everything was negative and we didn’t know where to find the information. There are people who had looked at the information, like I did, and decided to stay in the EU. Why is it that you and the Conservatives want us to stay out?
- I think that the Department of Work and Pensions have no awareness when it comes to Deaf people and they have little understanding of what being Deaf means, what sign language is, Deaf issues, or the culture within the community. They don’t work with us, they don’t intend to find out and understand, and they make incorrect assumptions. I want to ask the parties what, if they came into government, they would do about this issue to tackle the shortcomings within the DWP?
- I am a mother of two boys, one of them is profoundly deaf and the other one is hard of hearing. I have been listening to the party responses throughout the evening and I am quite surprised that nothing has really changed in regards to the level of support within education for deaf children in the past few years. There’s still a lack of support for BSL translation, bookkeeping etc and it makes me feel quite angry inside as I don’t know where to find the help and support they need.
- Event conclusion and final words from Parties
1. The continuing failure of deaf children to achieve parity with their peers requires fair and independent research into the education of deaf children with independent recommendations. What does your party plan to do to address this?
FROM THE FLOOR: Hello everyone, thank you to the panellists for attending the hustings event this evening, now with the previous topics we have all been in agreement that we're not seeing deaf children have equal access to education, we don't seem to have any real solution as to how to resolve that issue. Now, I think one way of fundamentally dealing with the issue is having independent research looking into this issue. That independent research can then present a list of independent recommendations and I would like to ask the panel whether your parties support that as an idea. [Applause].
CHAIR: I'd just like to remind everybody, this is not the same as we were talking about with education, this is very specific about the research and whether we should have specific research into education, I'd like to start with Ben please.
BEN FLETCHER: If I can just talk about Access to Work first, I personally have access issues with that, I work for the Financial Times and I manage staff and there is a lot of teams there and Access to Work have asked me to reduce the funding hours that I receive for interpreter support and I'm deeply concerned about the Access to Work cuts, I should say.
CHAIR: Sorry Ben I'm going to interrupt, sorry to everyone. If we can just ensure that answers are more related to the independent research, looking into deaf education, we will come back to Access to Work, so would you like the question repeated are or are comfortable to responding to the question?
BEN FLETCHER: Okay, thank you. There are and there has been many research papers about deaf education, my own mother's book a deaf child's right to sign, university evidence as well, there is also DCAL, department for cognition and language that have created research papers, there are many videos about deaf education as well, it seems that there is a lot of evidence out there in the research sphere and it seems to be that the government currently is ignoring this evidence and I do agree with Thomas' point there, that how is it that we can get the government to see that this evidence is there and to use it to the best advantage of it.
CHAIR: Thank you Ben for your response. I'll just move on now to Baroness Celia Thomas to respond.
BARONESS THOMAS: Politicians always seem to like reinventing the wheel. The fact that there is a lot of research probably will wash over them and if they do agree to this, something new would be set up. Look at the Dilnott it Commission into social care, that was very good, it wasn't followed through properly. We would set up, as I said, a national commission into the whole topic of education for deaf children and adults and going right through just to highlight what is needed now so that we can be absolutely sure that this is that forefront of people's minds [Applause].
CHAIR: Thank you. Now I'd like to pass over to Dawn.
DAWN BUTLER: I would like to see a few things put in place, like access, GCSE BSL put in place as a standard before a government dives into independent research, if we have independent research it could take a long time and what I don't want is for this to take a long time, I think that people say that Jeremy Corbyn's view of the world isn't possible, that everybody can, you know, live a life where they get help where they need it and there is holistic approach, but I think it is possible and I think they're wrong. I think independent research, I have no issues with it, I think there are a lot of research documents out there, I would like to see it combined, some basics put in place and then it refined over time, but I think that the Deaf Community has waited long enough. [Applause].
CHAIR: Thank you Dawn. Can I ask if members of the audience are satisfied with the answers to the question about the independent research? Thank you.
2. Many deaf sign language users are experiencing difficulties when being assessed for Personal Independent Payments by not having appropriate qualified interpreter being available during the assessment. What will your party do to make sure this is addressed?
FROM THE FLOOR: Okay, so I'm going to be talking about fair assessments for personal independence payments, so firstly I think with PIP, personal independence payments, now this is obviously being rolled out and unfortunately for deaf people when having their assessment they're not having qualified interpreters, they are having people that have BSL level 3, perhaps. That's really disrupting the quality of that assessment and we're seeing that happen time and time again and as a result the award that they receive is in correct. Now, the first question is: what will you do to stop that happening and ensuring that we have registered, qualified interpreters in those settings? Now, the second question I have is in relation to Access to Work. I think there are two things here, I think there are lots of young people that are soon to be finishing school that are thinking about what they want to do in their future careers and they're seeing all of the issues with Access to Work, all of the cuts with Access to Work and that's having a really detrimental effect to what they want to do in the future, can I even be a professional, can I been be a manager, how can I possibly do that without Access to Work, the cuts to Access to Work, it's turning those people off. I've worked for the council for ten years, I had Access to Work support, which is great, had that support in place, I could have my interpreters, i.e. was assessed for that level of support, I had interpreters for five days a week, soon as the Conservatives took government, all of a sudden I was reassessed, five days became 4, I fought for that and fought for my right to have five days a week and they haven't taken that into consideration and now we are seeing with Access to Work that there is a cap being put into place and it's affecting people, that's obviously not come into force just yet, but it will be coming into force and yet again, my support that I receive is going to go down to two and a half days a week.
Now I manage a team of hearing staff, how on earth can I do that without interpreters? How can I continue in my role is my manager going to look at me and think you have now lost the ability to manage your team effectively, which obviously looks very poorly on me. So, what there are parties going to do, will you pledge today to remove that cap? Those are my two questions, thank you.
THE CHAIR: Thank you Andrew. I will start with Dawn.
DAWN BUTLER: Debbie Abraham who is our Shadow Minister raised an urgent question in Parliament about PIP and about capita at about, I can't remember what they were called before ... ATOS, they were disgusting, it was privatised and they make money from making people with disabilities lives a misery. That has to stop. Jeremy has said we will in source all of these types of things, so instead of outsourcing it to private companies where they make money and make your life a misery, they have made millions of pounds, that money could be spent on providing Access to Work for you. I think that yes, I mean I can't give away what's in the disability manifesto otherwise will get into trouble,.
BARONESS THOMAS: Oh go on (laughter)
DAWN BUTLER: I think what you have to look at Andrew you said the difference that it made when Labour was in Government and when the Tories were in Government. You have to hold that in your mind the difference that political parties make and the difference that a Labour Party will make in Government will make your life, better. I can guarantee that because we have completely different approach, and mind set to how people are treat'd to how the many are treated, and not the few.
Can I just say, sorry, that a million disabled people into work or people with disabilities into work, will invest £13 billion into our economy, so it makes sense that we help people into work. (applause).
THE CHAIR: Thanks Dawn, now I hand over to Ben.
BEN FLETCHER: Addressing the issue first of the PIP assessments, I am not happy with that. It is affecting our mental health. It's creating great stress for people and I have seen so many people, friends, colleagues, having to face this stress, having to go through this awful stress and even giving up work, and it's not helping us, it's making things worse for us. I agree with this, the Green Party agree with this. Assessments are absolutely a prior priority and they must be fairer and they must be even scrapped completely, all privatisation that does not match our needs, fundamentally it does not we want to go back to focussing on our individual needs it's about individual needs and not profit. Talking now about Access to Work I am fundamentally very worried about this, the Government has said it will only affect 200 Deaf people just 200 people, just the top level users of Access to Work. Those 200 people are very successful Deaf people, they are role models for Deaf children, they are role models for our community to think about what Deaf children and young people can achieve. What is the Government saving? £2 million perhaps. But we are losing so much, we are losing these capable, strong independent Deaf adults at will mean that Deaf children and young people will give up hope because they will think they can't achieve because they have got no role models to look up to in the future.
We have money. Let me look at our statistics. We have money. There is £120 billion going to nuclear weapons, going to Trident. The corporation tax cuts I talked about earlier, that is £30 billion going to private pensions. I could go on about how much the Conservative Government is taking money away from us and putting it into businesses. I fully agree that Access to Work needs to be preserved, it needs to be saved and money needs to be put into it. Thank you. (applause).
THE CHAIR: Thank you so much to Ben, and now I am going to hand offer to Baroness Celia Thomas please.
BARONESS THOMAS: Actually there's an awful lot of money in unclaimed benefits. Which people don't really know about. Now, I spend my life fighting for people getting PIP assessments over turned. Because there is a great deal of unfairness in PIP. You have your particular problems, other people have different ones, but in nearly all of them the assessments are often are very poor quality. Done by people who are not really listening to what the claimant is saying. Occasionally, you get a very good assessment, I went to Wandsworth job centre and witnessed a brilliant one. But they obviously gave me a brilliant assessor. Because they knew I was watching. So we have to do something about this.
There's no question. Because PIP is not now fit for purpose, so what we would do is to review all the PIP descriptors. I brought a motion into the House of Lords the other day about a PIP assessment and actually we wanted to get rid of the regulation, we would have done but unfortunately Dawn's party it wasn't Dawn, but your party is very queasy about voting down a regulation which would have got rid of it. But you know, it's the way some people are, they don't want to go too far.
Now about Access to Work, the cap is about £42,000, that will pay I think for three full‑time days of somebody who needs a signer, or 5 half days.
FROM THE FLOOR: No, it's a lot less than that.
BARONESS THOMAS: Less than that is it not £42,000? Are you sure? Isn't it 5 half days and three full days? This is what David Buxton told me. But anyway, whatever it is, it does not pay for full‑time work, somebody coming and signing full‑time. So that is ridiculous. What I will just say, one day years ago, I met the man who runs Access to Work, and I told him about David Buxton not being able to have signers for his surgeries. He was a councillor. The man immediately said "we'll look at it again" and granted it. It was rather ad hoc. So, we need to get on to the barricades about both PIP and Access to Work, it's somewhere I actually live on these particularly barricades. I shall go back to them, whoever wins the election. (applause).
THE CHAIR: Thank you very much to the panellists for your responses. Are you happy with the answer Steven, yes so I am going to open this up to floor.
3. The government has decided to impose a cap on Access to Work funding. Access to Work is a vital lifeline for Deaf and hard of hearing people in the workplace. This new policy could discourage young deaf people from going to university as they will fear that the jobs they are studying towards won't be there for them after qualifying.
What will your party do about the cap and allow Deaf people to stay in their jobs and pay their taxes?
FROM THE FLOOR: Access to Work is so valuable, it is so precious to all of us. Ben clearly eloquently explained about the issues he faces them personally because he has Access to Work himself. It's affecting 200 deaf people, this cap is affecting I am pleased you are all anti‑this cap, but I believe that Ben very eloquently explained how the cap will stop the people from how we can pay for these issues by redirecting the funding to other places. We talk about these 200 Deaf people it's affecting now but in 10 years’ time will it be 2000? A I would like to see more Deaf people in employment but where will this money come from to pay for these services.
THE CHAIR: Thank you. Toby for your question. I am going to start with Dawn.
DAWN BUTLER: Again it depends on Government's priorities. What are Government's priorities? If the priority is getting people into work so what we're talking about in the Labour Party is having an holistic view to getting people into work so instead of punishing people, what you say is how can we get you into work. What services, what help can we provide to get you into work. Whatever that help is, we provide it. Because people getting into work will help the economy, as I said, £30 billion a year will be fed into the economy with just 1 million people with disabilities working. But not only that, it's all the mental health issues that come with working, all the self‑esteem issues that come with working and communicating, and all the people you meet along the way that all makes society a better place. So again, it depends on Government's priority. The Government that we currently had is a a cruel and callous Government they are strong against the weak, and they are weak against the strong. It time for us to change that. It's time for us to stand up against the Government and say well actually, we want to live in a different world in a better world. (applause).
THE CHAIR: Thank you Dawn I am now going to hand offer to Baroness Celia Thomas.
BARONESS THOMAS: The last Government, Conservative Government, made a great song and dance about trying to halve the disability employment gap. However, their way of doing it was for example, appointing disability champions in certain sectors, which a very nice idea, but what does that do practically for anyone to be honest.
They just did not put their money where their mouths were, and really it was an empty promise. It was a slogan. They liked saying this was their ambition, and to be honest Penny Mordaunt is a very nice person, and I think she would like to have done more but her hands were tied, there was money attached to it. So it was empty words. But halving the disability employment gap is absolutely essential if this country is going to be serious about wanting its people with all sorts of impairments to lead a full and active life, contributing to society in general, not taking but giving more than they take. That is what we have to make sure the next Government will take on board properly, we don't just get empty words. (applause).
THE CHAIR: Ok thank you. Now, we are going to move on to a new topic, which is our fifth question.
BEN FLETCHER: I have not had a chance to respond as yet?
THE CHAIR: But I think that questions was actually aimed at the representatives from Labour Party and the LibDem, we have had an answer to that but if you want to add something Ben then by all means.
BEN FLETCHER: Yes please, thank you Ashley. There are so many Deaf people trying to break that glass ceiling, and trying very hard to climb up the ladder in employment. As we see there are no Deaf BSL users in politics, we need more people there we need to break that glass ceiling to see more Deaf BSL users in politics. The cap will happen, and it's going to push a lot of us back down, we're going to be back where we were many, many years ago. It's very bad idea.
I've worked my own way up in my career and I currently manage a group of teams. I'd like to ask members of the panel, should I retire? Should I give up? When this cap is in force what am I going to do with my life? It's a fundamental issue we need to be campaigning on more vigorously
4. Brexit is a hot topic at the moment. What are your party's policies on Brexit and how can we ensure Britain gets the best outcome of negotiations. Can we afford to leave Europe? Where will the money come from to replace the lost European income?
FROM THE FLOOR: Hello my name is Carolys, my question is quite short, it's about Brexit and us leaving the EU.
It is an issue that is affecting the wider UK, Europe, the EU as well as deaf people as well. My question to each of you is what is your party's policy on leaving the EU and how will you ensure the best outcomes for us? Can we afford to leave the EU? The income that we used to get from the EU, how will we find the money to replace that lost income? [Applause].
CHAIR: Okay, thank you Carolys, for the question, I'd like to start with Baroness Celia Thomas.
BARONESS THOMAS: Well, as a lot of you will know, this is our headline policy. It is to give the people a second referendum or a final referendum on whether they want the deal which is going to be negotiated, presumably, in the next two years. We say that people must decide, because my party was probably the keenest to stay in the Europe union. We think it's going to be bad for the economy, very bad for jobs, it's going to be bad for the free movement of people. The fact that we have the NHS propped‑up by so many workers from Europe. Care service, the hospitality service, there are so many ways in which our communities are sustained by the free movement of people.
Okay, we understand that that wasn't the decision of the British people as a whole, but did they really know what they voted for? Weren't they told all sorts of lies? So we think it's really, it is the one thing we want to say, at this election is, we must have a second referendum so that the British people can decide the destination ‑‑ okay, we have started the journey but we want to know where we are going. Why should we give the Conservatives a blank cheque, which is what they have got at the moment. So, unashamedly we are anti Brexit, because we think it's, it won't do us any favours and one of the things that is going to be churned up in the wash‑out that is going on, is the rights of disabled people, because Europe was very critical of what has been happening in the last few years in Britain and we need that umm... we need these rights to be preserved and we really don't think they will be if we are not careful [Applause].
CHAIR: Thank you. Before I move on there is an issue that I've been directed to, that you, a technical issue, may I just ask us to hold this evening, just for one moment. [Pause]. Okay, a pink shirt for our interpreter this evening, apparently it's a better contrast for the people watching on the streaming, a better contrast with the curtains.
Let's move on, thank you. I'll ask Dawn to respond to the question about Brexit.
DAWN BUTLER: I thought you were going to ask me to take my jacket off for a moment! [Laughter] .
Umm... Brexit. I campaigned to remain in, in the Europe union, you are absolutely right to ask about the money, remember the promises that we had on the bus, 350 million pounds from the NHS, we never saw that and in the end Theresa May said we are not getting the 350 million pounds.
There is a lot of money an infrastructure and laws that will disappear if we have an extreme Brexit, like Theresa May is proposing. The solution really is to vote labour, labour is the only party that has a sensible proposal to how we move forward in regards to negotiating and putting jobs and the economy first. Also, as I say, ensuring as domestic policy that we implement the UN Convention for the rights of disabled people in law and also workers' rights in law. We have got 40 years of legislation to try and put into domestic law in two years. We have been sold a complete farce by this government, it's outrageous.
If ‑‑ the Labour Party's position is, if Theresa May comes back, if she wins and actually as the polls are closing, I think labour might win and I hope we win and if she does win and she comes back with a bad deal we will not support it.
CHAIR: Thank you. [Applause]. Ben.
BEN FLETCHER: The Green Party believe that this is a fundamental issue. Whatever deal is created, we need to have another vote, that's what is proper.
It's quite disappointing that it is that, it is that the Labour Party are saying that the conservative can go ahead and do whatever it is that they want. This deal is going to be ratified, that is very disappointing and what we need, what society needs is the opportunity to vote on this deal. We need that ratification referendum. The Green Party are very, very worried about our rights and about people's right to continue to work and study in Europe and those members coming to this country as well. It's almost like, as we were just talking about, it's like they have been given this blank cheque, labour have given the Conservatives a blank cheque to go ahead and do whatever it is they want and that's very, very, very, very disappointing, it's almost like they have given them a lift to the bank in order to cash it in.
5. As a Deaf, Asian, I suffer a variety of abuse on a daily basis. As a minority, we are also being deprived of opportunities to gain more skills and experience in the work place. How could your party help people like me?
FROM THE FLOOR: Hello everyone, thank you for giving me the opportunity to ask the next question, I'm defer and I'm Asian, in everyday life I've experienced barriers left, right and centre, particularly in relation to employment, in trying to find work, trying to find training I'm, I'm met with barriers and resistance. Now, what I want to know is how your parties will support deaf BME individuals and wider society, thank you. [Applause].
CHAIR: Thank you. I'd just like to remind our panel members to keep their answers as succinct and to the point as possible, I'll begin this response with Ben, please.
BEN FLETCHER: I'm in the same position. I am a deaf sign language user and I have Usher Syndrome as well. I value the Green Party and appreciate the Green Party when they selected me to be this candidate for this area.
I have written personal letters out, I have written out letters to people who are from minorities just as I am. I know that the Green Party sent out letters looking for minorities to stand as parliamentary, prospective candidates. They questioned me and then they vote for me. I was selected to stand for the Green Party the Green Party really want to encourage representatives from as diverse backgrounds as possible to get into politics.
Let's look at Parliament at the moment, two‑thirds are male, one third are female. If we look at councils around the country, all led by male. Parliament is not really representing us, we need to change that voting system, we need that voting system to reflect people like you and me. [Applause]..
CHAIR: Thank you Ben. Now, Baroness Celia Thomas.
BARONESS THOMAS: Now, I agree with all of that, but were we talking about 'worth', about getting a job? I think we weren't just talking about Parliament were we. What I think we need is a mind ‑‑ a changed mindset on the part of employers. That's the first thing. The second thing is there have to be far more imaginative and properly trained disability employment advisers, they have been cut back, I think a lot of them weren't very high‑powered anyway.
Really, if the government really do want the ‑‑ the last one did ‑‑ want to halve the disability employment gap, there has to be a way to find, for them to tell employers what they are missing by not making it much more possible for people who use sign language to get jobs.
Now, I think the, we need to have, really we need to have a proper campaign about this and your input will be in valuable. So, what you think the path is, I mean employers, yes umm... disability employment advisers, yes, but that can't be quite enough. I think there needs to be a proper campaign and it may be Channel 4 will take it up, BBC. We need it to be a high-level campaign so that employers can see what they are missing out on. [Applause].
CHAIR: Thank you. Over to Dawn please.
DAWN BUTLER: As you can see I'm a visible minority and it's very different when you are a person of colour and the discrimination that you face on a day daily basis. There is word called 'intersectionality', that's where you have more than one thing that somebody discriminates against you with, so being black and being a woman means that I often face double discrimination. In Parliament there are 650MPs, less than 50 of them are persons of colour.
I can tell you one story when I went into a lift one morning, it was a lift for MPs, some of the MPs that were in that lift said to me, "This lift really isn't for cleaners.".
So! So...I understand what it's like to face discrimination. What we need to do, especially for those people who are, who are deaf or use BSL as their first language, remember not everyone who is deaf uses BSL as their first language, it's to make sure that their rights are protected. That's means that we have to strengthening the Equality Act, which the Labour Party is committed to doing. It also means you deserve to have rights to justice. This government has priced people out of their rights for justice.
Justice is becoming a place only for the rich, and it's wrong. The Labour Party will ensure that all of that changes under a Labour Government. (applause).
6. There is a lot of inequality and a lack of support for Deaf people in the social and health care field. What can your party offer to those in real need?
FROM THE FLOOR: Hello again, this topic is in particular to social healthcare. We have seen generally that there is not enough support to social healthcare, now I want to ask the parties, how you intend to improve this particular issue to do with social healthcare if you would. Thank you. Just making sure that everyone has understood what I was saying. We're having a clarification about what the sign should be for social ... ok.
THE CHAIR: Thank you Anthony.
DAWN BUTLER: So the Labour Party is fully aware that there is a shortage of appropriate skilled workforce ADASS, and it's important that you have access to fully qualified interpreters and the Labour Party would work towards ensuring that there's enough people who are qualified and a assessable. BSL is the only language you cannot interpret over the telephone, so we need to use technology to be able to ensure that you have full access to qualified interpreters.
THE CHAIR: Thank you Dawn, and Ben please.
BEN FLETCHER: Just to add to Dawn's last point, there are also not enough interpreters in the UK. Last week, as I said I want went to this husting and there weren't any interpreters available, it was very difficult to find interpreters. But now going back to the question about social care, and healthcare, the NHS and social care have had a very close relationship since they have been set up and this relationship has seen a division. There's been a lot of cuts and very poor investment into social care and we have seen the decline in those services.
Now the Government wants this social care to become more privatised. This is taking our money. They want to take your money and they want you to pay for your own social care. I think it's really important to go back to the NHS, and we all agree that we need to look after each other. Money needs to go into the NHS that will look after us. We should have this NHS, we should have it to look after us in our future years.
THE CHAIR: Thank you Ben. (applause) Baroness Celia Thomas please.
BARONESS THOMAS: Well my party has been quite clear, we will put a penny on income tax to put far more money into health and social care. They have got to be married up together, now as we all know social care is taken care of by local authorities largely, and the NHS is different. Sometimes the two are close in certain areas, they work very closely together, other places they simply don't. So everywhere there's a different set up, and different problems, but what we do know is there is not nearly enough money in for today's needs. People are living longer, they need different health packages, care packages, and so what we have got at the moment is just not good enough. The Tories as we know have got into all sorts of trouble this week, and they are now doing what they often do, which is to say well we just wanted to clarify what we said. So a BBC reporter says "so you changed your mind?", "No, no no we're just clarified it and it's what we said all along." Anyway, we just say you do need more money to care for our ageing population, and to give the right quality of care. The health service is going to be, I am afraid it's going to suffer from Brexit very badly. I just hope we manage to get through the next few years somehow. (applause).
7. We are rather anxious that less tax income will lead to more public expenditure cuts affecting services important to us like health, social care, education and disability support. How do you plan to manage tax and the economy to safeguard much needed services?
FROM THE FLOOR: So this is a question about tax and the economy. Thank you Dawn. So this is a question about tax and the economy. Now, we are concerned by bringing in less income tax leads to more cutting of public services and that's in healthcare, social care, education, employment so how would you plan to manage tax in the economy in order to create the needed income to be able to provide the needed services.
THE CHAIR: Ok thank you Barry. Thank you. I think we'll start with Baroness Celia Thomas.
BARONESS THOMAS: Well, as I said on health and social care, we would put a penny on income tax. In general, we would boost the economy with a major programme of capital investment, aimed at stimulating growth across the UK. We would control the national debt by eliminating the day‑to‑day deficit, and only then borrowing to invest. We would double innovation and research spending, across the economy, in the long‑term. That's our plan. (applause).
THE CHAIR: Thank you. Dawn please.
DAWN BUTLER: The Labour Party's plan is to make sure that we invest in our economy, that we build an economy that works for everyone. Now, Theresa May has said if she doesn't get her own way of Brexit she would make us a low tax economy, which means there would be no money coming UK to provide for any of the services. That is completely wrong and the Labour Party is completely against that. Again, it's about priorities. They say you can't bring any money into the economy if we bring services into public ownership. Well yes you can. Because if private people can make money and pay dividends then the public purse can make money and use that money for social services. So it can work. It can happen. Don't believe what the Tories tell you about how the economy has to work. So, people with the broadest shoulders will pay a bit more but we will also make sure that there will be more people working and there will be more money fed into the economy. So, I think it's a different way of working but it's a way that will work for the many, and not the few. (applause).
THE CHAIR: Thank you Dawn. I would like to hand over to Ben now please.
BEN FLETCHER: I think this is a really good question, the Green Party policy on this particular issue is to increase corporation tax as I have mentioned, corporation tax has been cut from 28% any number of times right the way down to 18%. That is a lot of money. The UK is lowest in the European union in terms of our corporation tax rates so I think it's perfectly fair we increase our corporation tax, that would generate revenue for the state. As we know the current Tory Government is supporting a number of commercial activities and private corporations, like we have had the issue with the Hinkley power site and the nuclear power site, we have Trident where we're spending roughly £120 billion into Trident. Our view is that we need to fundamentally change how we spend the income raised from income tax.
We have too much cosying up to private businesses, we have too much shunning of society.
8. With recent advances in technology many companies now offer video relay and interpreting services via landline, cable or mobile. This is not available 24/7 and what will your party do to get the required legislation to have 24/7 access?
FROM THE FLOOR: My question is linked to VRS video relay services, we have talked about technology and how I am very sorry I am being asked to move so that people can see me more clearly, let me just repeat that. My question is about video relay services. We have seen advancement in technologies, we know there are capabilities for videophones my question is what would you do in law to create a video relay service for Deaf people that is available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. (applause).
THE CHAIR: Thank you Amy for your question, I think we'll start with Ben on this one please.
BEN FLETCHER: It would be great to have a 24/7 video relay service with access to interpreters, but there are issues that there are not enough interpreters, there is not enough BSL training, there is not enough of these people so we need the growth of BSL we need the growth of interpreters to do that. We need the growth of BSL being taught to Deaf children, but VRS 24/7 I think it will naturally happen. I think we have no specific points with regard to Green Party about this but I would certainly raise it with my colleagues should it be an issue.
THE CHAIR: Thank you Ben. Baroness Celia Thomas please.
BARONESS THOMAS: Well I think Ben has said it all, that is quite clearly the right answer. It's definitely an aspiration, it's something definitely to work towards, but we need to build up the number of interpreters before that's going to be a reality. But it's certainly something to have in one's mind, going forward. I shall certainly see what I can do, to raise this issue in the House of Lords when we get back. (applause).
THE CHAIR: Thank you. Passing over to Dawn now please.
DAWN BUTLER: I think the Labour Party's BSL Plan will look into 24/7 access. I also thinking we would look at some of the organisations who are currently providing 24/7 access like British Gas, the O2, Superdrug, we look how those economies are working.
I would like to see the redeployment of the money that the government made from closing down the Remploy factories, diverted into ensuring that we could provide 24/7 access [Applause].
9. Triple Pension Lock - We know that we have an ageing population, this is a clear trend that’s going to continue happening and we know that social care certainly isn’t cheap, whether that’s care within external housing or whether that’s support coming internally. Rather than just criticising the current plan, it would be good to know what your party’s stance is. Why should we pay for care when one becomes ill after we have paid tax for over 40 years?
FROM THE FLOOR: Hello this is a question in relation to care for the elderly. Now, we know that we have an aging population, this is a clear trend that's going to continue happening and we know that social care, certainly isn't cheap, whether that's care within external housing or whether that's support coming internally, now rather than just criticising the current plan, it would be good to know what you think, what these parties think.
At the moment we pay 40 years of tax from our working lives and then we are now being asked to pay for our own social care, what do you think about that?
CHAIR: I'll start with Dawn to reply to that question first and again just a polite reminder to keep your answers as brief and to the point as possible. Thank you.
DAWN BUTLER: Brief is that the conservative government has ruined social care, they have taken 4.6 million pounds, billion pounds out of social care services and then they want to put 2 billion pounds back, that is still a deficit, so they have ruined social care. The Labour Party would use the NHS and social care and combine them together to provide a better service for people, it will save money and it will be a seamless transition and they will not be asking you to sell your house for your care in your old age. [Applause].
CHAIR: Thank you Dawn. Ben.
BEN FLETCHER: I fully agree, I would just like to agree one further thing: it's frustrating seeing this cycle that keeps going back and forth between Conservatives, Labour, Conservatives, Labour. Labour says, I'm going to do this and then we go back to the conservatives and they ruin what labour has started, then the labour come back and we need to break this cycle, this cycle that seems to have been continuing. Please vote for change.
I think, you know, we need more people to come forward and say these things.
I am worried that labour are talking about privatising the NHS again. The Conservatives are very interested in privatising it and I just want to break this cycle, I think it's really important that we think about this, the Green Party want to sort of see breaking this cycle, we don't want this to happen, correction, labour started the privatisation of the NHS, not that they want to do it correction.
CHAIR: Thank you, Ben. Now Baroness Celia Thomas.
BARONESS THOMAS: We would certainly implement a cap on the cost of social care and revise the carers' allowance so that it is fairer and recognises the efforts of carers across the country.
I'm totally reliant on my carer, comes in just an hour a day, I hear all the things she does for other people. These carers get such a little amount of money, I would, I would double their pay tomorrow, probably bankrupt the country, but never mind, I feel very strongly about this, certainly the ones I know are fantastic.
It's a very important question and we should do more for them. So, that's what we will do. [Applause].
10. Question for Dawn from a deaf-blind member of the audience: When we are talking about coming out of the EU, most of us didn’t know what we were voting for, because everything was negative and we didn’t know where to find the information. There are people who had looked at the information, like I did, and decided to stay in the EU. Why is it that you and the Conservatives want us to stay out?
FROM THE FLOOR: I'm deafblind, registered deafblind. The question which I have is for Dawn. When we are talking about the, talking about when we got out of Europe, yeah ‑‑ coming out of Europe. Most of us didn't know what we were voting for, because everything was negative and, just ‑‑ and we didn't know where to find the information, right. There is, there are people who have looked at the information, like I did, so I decided to stay in but there is a lot, there is a lot of people just didn't lookout. Why is it that you and the Conservatives want us to stay out?
CHAIR: Dawn?
DAWN BUTLER: So I campaigned to stay in, but we do live in a democracy and unfortunately, even though it was a by a small margin, people voted to leave the EU. Now, I do wish that every time It don't like the decision of an election I could rerun it, until I get the decision that I want, because then Labour will be in government and not the Conservatives, but that's not the case, so even though I, I resigned from the Shadow Cabinet because I didn't believe that we should have, we should have given the Conservatives a much harder time and I believe that to be true, but we have been giving them a hard time and that's why they have made number of U‑turns and concessions on the EU. I don't think just offering another vote is the best way forward, I think what we have to do is make sure we are no worse off as a country, that's the important thing. You need someone who will look at both sides of the equation and make sure that you have a deal that's good for everyone, rather than picking sides and pitching one side against another, which I think causes problems.
11. I think that the Department of Work and Pensions have no awareness when it comes to Deaf people and they have little understanding of what being Deaf means, what sign language is, Deaf issues, or the culture within the community. They don’t work with us, they don’t intend to find out and understand, and they make incorrect assumptions. I want to ask the parties what, if they came into government, they would do about this issue to tackle the shortcomings within the DWP?
FROM THE FLOOR: Hello my name is Lizzie Green, now I want to come back to point of PIP please. I have applied twice, and I have had to go through to tribunal, that tribunal will be in three weeks’ time I found the whole process very stressful. Now ATOS the people that do the assessment, they are evil. They came to do the assessment and they put all kinds of things about how we got on, we got on very well, it was all fine, but what they don't refer to is the barriers that I encounter in daily life. Now the DWP, now I have not met the person who actually made the decision with my case specifically, he said, "Your speech is norm" I thought that's a load of rubbish. That's a load of rubbish. I think that the DWP have no awareness when it comes to Deaf people they have got no understanding about what being Deaf means, what sign language is the issues to do with the Deaf the culture within the community, they don't work with us they don't intend to find out and understand, they go based on a assumption that are incorrect and they make decisions based on those. I want to know both parties what would you do about it, incoming into Government how would you change the sheer ignorance of the department of work and pensions.
THE CHAIR: Just thank you for your question, just to clarify it's for both panellists, I will ask Ben to reply first, I know you are fed up with me repeating this please keep your answer as succinct as possible. Thank you.
BEN FLETCHER: I fully agree with that, with Lizzie's point. We know that the Conservatives said they want to improve the mental health of society, but really the current system is destroying our mental health. It is making us more stressed. These private companies are not making better decisions for us. Absolutely not. Private companies are focused on their profit, they are not concerned about people. It goes back to my earlier point about the NHS, it shouldn't be about profit, it should be about the people there will be less stress if that was the case. (applause).
THE CHAIR: Thank you Ben. Dawn?
DAWN BUTLER: The only way is the Labour way in terms of making sure that the NHS comes back into public ownership. PIPs need to be scrapped, the assessments need to be scrapped the Labour Party has had several opposition day debates, we have had rallies on how bad PIP is. It's run for profit, which is wrong, it's not the way to treat people. The money that is given to those companies that run for profit, could be used to help people back into work. That is the model that we have to now use and work towards, that's the model that the Labour Party will do if it gets into Government. (applause).
12. I am a mother of two boys, one of them is profoundly deaf and the other one is hard of hearing. I have been listening to the party responses throughout the evening and I am quite surprised that nothing has really changed in regards to the level of support within education for deaf children in the past few years. There’s still a lack of support for BSL translation, bookkeeping etc and it makes me feel quite angry inside as I don’t know where to find the help and support they need.
FROM THE FLOOR: Hello all of you my name is Sophia and I am a mother of two boys one of them, my name is Sophia, I am the mother of two boys one of them is profoundly deaf and the other one is hard of hearing. I have been listening all of them and I am quite surprised I didn't see any change coming from what I hear in past few years ago, and there have been hard the drop in education they want to lack of support for what they needed, and writing for translating for BSL and also book‑keeping as well and I am really quite inside angry at the same time I don't know I have to help them to improve the education to keep on on track. Also, I learn for BSL up to level three. I have been trying to get work to help to others’ situations mothers and everything there, to help to support them. I am really having a hard time to contact the schools and everything, kind of feeling as discrimination thing or what's going on. I am hoping to ask all these questions about two MPs I am hoping to get some answers from them, and to improve all of this for the Deaf Community round London, also Access to Work we don't have anything about Hammersmith & Fulham where I live, they have to go to the east London in Stratford and that one they closed down already. So I don't know what they do these young boys sitting home nothing to do, and really frustrating as well. Thank you very much. (applause).
THE CHAIR: Thank you for your question. We'll start with Dawn to reply to that.
DAWN BUTLER: So I am an ambassador, one of the ambassador offs Brent and Harrow deaf club, you hear stories all the sometime of children who are Deaf who want to work, have not got Access to Work, and this Government is just so cruel to people and I think, it's been said a number of times tonight that we have to have a different approach to people, we have to have an holistic approach to how people go back into work. What can we do as a Government to help you into work, people should not feel that they are being discriminated against or, you know because they use, BSL that they are not able to access services or start work. We lose out as a society. It's time that that changed. I think the Labour Party, 14 years ago recognised British Sign Language, we should have gone that step further, we didn't. It's now time for us to take that step further, in Government, and make sure that we have a national plan for British Sign Language, a national plan for the people who are deaf and a national education plan for children so that they feel as they are growing up that the world is there Oyster. (applause).
THE CHAIR: Thank you Dawn. Now over to Ben for our last comment of the evening.
BEN FLETCHER: You were talking about your two sons, and I am sure they must be so proud of you for coming to this event this evening, and the fact you have learnt sign to communicate with air children and I think that's fantastic. I remember coming to this debate, gosh 15 years ago and it's just so proud I am so proud to see you coming as a mother of two sons.
I am just going to say something very briefly, there's an organisation called Deaf Parenting UK. DBUK for short, I think you should get into touch with that group, on that discussion forum you could get some advice from other families that face the similar issues and perhaps that could support you in this case, I think you would fit in very well with that organisation. (applause).
Event conclusion and final words from Parties
THE CHAIR: Thank you Ben, thank you Dawn, we have had a really, really interesting evening of debate. I just want to give both Dawn and Ben two minutes teach to basically pitch to this audience as to why they should vote for you. So two minutes each please and we'll start with Dawn.
DAWN BUTLER: The Conservative Government are wrong, they are wrong on so many different levels. They have cut services that have made your lives harder. It's time to change that. It's time to vote in a Labour Government, we started a job 14 years ago we recognised British Sign Language, now we have to give it full legal status. We have to make sure we undo the damage that this cruel Conservative Government has done, and we make your lives better because enriching your lives enriches our lives. Equality is equality. You either belief in it or you don't. I believe in it. (applause).
THE CHAIR: Thank you Dawn, and to Ben please.
BEN FLETCHER: I have really enjoyed this evening, it's the first time I have attended a deaf hustings debate, I think this been really experience. I hope that's engaged the audience here this evening. We need people representing all of the main parties, whether that been Labour, Conservative, Green, or Liberal. I am very proud to be representing the Green Party, I think we are the only party that's that is truly for society, that is willing to stand up for us not interested in motivations of private organisations, or the motivations of unions. We are truly about society.
The Greens gave me the opportunity to represent them. You will remember 2 years ago Simeon Hart was a Parliamentary candidate as well, they are clearly very inclusive. We are an inclusive party, a passionate party, we are a caring party, and what we want is equality, true equality throughout society, enabling people, empowering people, giving people confidence.
Now I hope that when you come to vote you will vote Green. (applause).
THE CHAIR: Thank you both. We are almost at the end of our evening, may I say a big thank you to Dawn Butler, Baroness Celia Thomas, and to Ben Fletcher for representing their parties and answering your points this evening, to make sure that our deaf audience members are fully aware of what their parties will do for the Deaf Community in the UK. (applause).
This event would not have happened without the BDA organising it, and giving you the opportunity to understand the different parties' manifestos and how they are going to support Deaf people. Thank you to the British Deaf Assocation for organising this event this evening a big thank you to you all for attending in person and also watching via the live stream this evening. So thank you everybody for your attendance and your participation in this evenings event. (applause).
Just before we lock the door, I am going to repeat, please use the BDA's manifesto, it's available on the website, and it is clear what you and what we want what we want the MPs that come to your front door or that you meet, we want them to support. Use the BDA's manifesto, let me draw this evening to a close, thank you very much for your participation. (applause)